Fire Union's Pay Threat

[velbert]

Daystaff.....it wasnt just the fbu who had an agrement that came to an end last or this year almost every other public sector union and civil servants have seen the same thing!! pay deals that ran out last year or this year and why?? because they and us played right into Bliars hands!!

They were all conned before the last election on pensions so they wouldnt strike with a promise of "we will look after you" after we have won!!

And what a suprise when it didnt happen! now is the time for the whole public sector to band together with the civil service and tell Bliar and his underling Brown that enough is enough.

As much as I agree with you, I can't see it happening (the public sector uniting to say "enough is enough")... We all know that within the fire service if people simply adhered to their contracts of employment then that would be enough to bring the whole house of cards down, no need to resort to industrial action just do what you are paid to do, no acting up, no staying on to keep pumps on the run, no attending courses on your days off, so on and so on ..... but it doesn't happen and so the show stays on the road.

[daystaff]

It pains me to say it
but there will be a huge effort required to unite members of the fire service

as for organising a mass IA across the public sector
the public sector, the rail union etc will offer the FBU unstinting support if they take on the government and crack Gordon Browns pay policy

sound familiar?

same script different leaders

most people got 4% this year without asking

what would IA bring
6-7%?

[trigger62]

why don't we as a union contact the government with a different approach with regard to pay?
instead of getting 2% across the board for a pay rise, tell them we want £20 per week for every employee of the uk fire service.
all equal all fair !
i know that this would mean that some members would receive a bigger percentage than others but why should some members receive considerably more than others? eg 2% of £27000 is a lot less than 2% of £40,000
before anyone on here mentions pay differentials , they are already in place
this would probably work out cheaper as well and the government might just go for it !

[daystaff]

another case of firefighters giving a way the CoS of officers

don't forget anyone on 33k and above pays 40% tax and 9% NI

anyone on a higher salary is likely to have a larger mortgage
and they will feel a rise in interest rates more sharply
and interest rates are heading in one direction only and haven't reached their peak yet.
Negative equity looming?

Gordon Brown wants to keep public sector pay increases at 2%

Inflation is running 'officially' at 4%

Pension rights will be reduced-Gordons mission in his tenure and he has a proven track record in this field.

and interest rates will rise and continue to rise
(a symptom of not joining the Euro)

so settling for 2% is settling for a pay cut year on year
whilst watching your bills rise and rise

[scoobydoo69]

I think it is important to point out that what conference voted for was to secure a long term pay formula to provide stability for forefighters and the employers. It's not about striking to get 4% this year then having to go through the same again every year but about securing a deal that keeps us in the AP&T group. The last pay formula has thrown figures as low as 1.9%, although that was some time ago, but we accepted it because it was how it was. That is all we want, the stability that means we don't have to strike every year to get a decent pay deal. If, and I hope it doesn't, that means we have to stand up to the employers this year to achieve this then we should stand together and do it. I hope the employers will see the sense in giving us a new pay formula, not holding my breath though. Lets see what our members want to do eh!

[ChrisW]

In my opinion fighting to save a pay formula that does nothing to address pay drift leaves us in exactly in the same position as with our "old" formula. In fact I believe the "average settlement" deal is worse.

Here we are, hoping to protect a formula that does not even provide the average wage (when looking at hours worked) of the group in which we are aligned but the average settlement. As has been pointed out already 2% of not a lot is worse than 1% of much more.

The pay formula works in the favour of the employers more than it does for us and what we are seeing is a game of brinkmanship. Let us all sweat about losing an "automatic" pay increase in order to counter with the "oh o.k. We'll let you have the formula however you must give us....no just sign the deal and then we'll tell you".

With senior managers, Authority members etc all getting huge increases in recent years as a result of their hard work "Modernising" the fire service what is wrong with our representative body attempting a little collective bargaining. It surely couldn't be much worse.

Incidentally the 2006 Annual Survey of Hours and Earnings (on which this years rise would be based) gives the average increases in our sector as 2.3% (mean) and 1.9% (median)

[westside]

the NHS have rejected thier 1.9% that should have been in their pay in april. how many nhs workers are there how much has this saved new labour in one month alone? if we dont accept ,that will be a saving as well, how many of us on this site still vote labour lets see if anyone admits it and give us your reasons i always vote tory as i think should have to work for every thing you get and it should not be handed to you on a plate for free(ok they dont think that way any more i am alone on that) any one want to own up to voting labour?

[daystaff]

yes

I worked for everything I got between 79 and now

Maggie put VAT up from 7% to 15%
and mortgages peaked at 15%

yes I worked for everything I earned its just that the tories took most of it away.

the last ten years have seen the greatest level of economic stability ever

labour has its faults but it also has its merits
low mortgage rates low interest and cheap flights for all

gets my vote

[velbert]

yes

I worked for everything I got between 79 and now

Maggie put VAT up from 7% to 15%
and mortgages peaked at 15%

yes I worked for everything I earned its just that the tories took most of it away.

the last ten years have seen the greatest level of economic stability ever

labour has its faults but it also has its merits
low mortgage rates low interest and cheap flights for all

gets my vote

Thereby is the dilemma, they have done all of those things, but they have also done some very damaging things to the FRS, so do you vote for the 'greater good' and ignore the very personal things (like probably going to be jobless), or do you go against all your principles and vote Tory, or have a wasted vote with the Lib-Dems?

[daystaff]

look after number one velbert

all the time every time

the FBU has allowed firefighters to fall back in terms of pay by concentrating on all manner of side issues for nigh on 30 years

when they had the chance-and still have to some extent to focus on pay

they were found to be wanting.
ChrisW makes the valid point -what is wrong with a bit of collective bargaining

nothing at all
its just that the FBU is crap at it

preferring to throw their responsibility back into the hands of the membership
by saying the employers won't play ball so why don't you strike to get their attention for us?

instead why not tell the GS to get into a room with the employers and don't come out until you have negotiated the best deal possible
taking into account new technology, modernisation and the far better service that firefighters are providing today

CFO's can do it so why can't the GS of the FBU?