RPI / CPI

[PEGASUS]

I can't agree that the steel workers have "reaped what they sow", neither have millions of other private sector pension members who could potentially loose out at the hands of unscrupulous employers using this legislation if it comes in.
TATA bought this business well aware of the pension scheme and liabilities. They as a global company are not in any financial trouble. The reality is government should be changing the legislation to stop these pension scheme abuses by employers. They want us to all save for our retirement but then they continually destroy any faith in the pension system or any protections.
It is they at fault not private sector workers.

I could have worded it better Benito. Wasn't having a go at the steel workers, have every sympathy with them, they used to be public service workers like us when steel was nationilsed. Many have lost their jobs never mind the pension changes. Was having a go at the Gaurdian readers and the private sector in general who never raised an eyebrow when we were changed from RPI to CPI. They should have seen what may be coming to them. Auld story about heads in the sand and I'm all right jack. Now it's coming home to roost that was is happening to the steelworkers may happen in the rest of the private sector, they are shouting about legislation to stop it. Totally agree with what you say about them wanting us to save for retirement then destroying any faith in the pension system. The new old age pension that kicked in recently proves that again, and that affects everybody, social sector and private. Most on this site will never see the much vaunted £150 a week OAP. It's not just global companies that are at it, but the Tories in HMG. But then, they all sleep in the same bed, as we know.

[bill.advanced]

I could have worded it better Benito. Wasn't having a go at the steel workers, have every sympathy with them, they used to be public service workers like us when steel was nationilsed. Many have lost their jobs never mind the pension changes. Was having a go at the Gaurdian readers and the private sector in general who never raised an eyebrow when we were changed from RPI to CPI. They should have seen what may be coming to them. Auld story about heads in the sand and I'm all right jack. Now it's coming home to roost that was is happening to the steelworkers may happen in the rest of the private sector, they are shouting about legislation to stop it. Totally agree with what you say about them wanting us to save for retirement then destroying any faith in the pension system. The new old age pension that kicked in recently proves that again, and that affects everybody, social sector and private. Most on this site will never see the much vaunted £150 a week OAP. It's not just global companies that are at it, but the Tories in HMG. But then, they all sleep in the same bed, as we know.

Sorry Pegasus, but we never raised an eyebrow, we sat back and did nothing about this.
We can't expect those in the private sector to do anything when we all sat and watched our own index linking being changed from RPI to CPI.
The fact is this was done by the Tories to save money at our expense, at a time when the trade unions are struggling to support their members, what could we do go on strike, what could our unions have done asked those still in work to strike for us. They picked on a soft target, pensioners, and got away with it.
This government have all but destroyed pensions for everyone, nobody in the public or the private sector has much faith in pensions anymore. Many of our own guys fear another rise in contributions, or a reduction in payout before they retire, some cannot afford the payments anymore, and are now looking forward to their old age with no pension other than their OAP.
Put the blame were it lies squarely not guardian readers or the private sector in general, but this government. Many in the private sector have no company subsidised schemes. Some of their own private pensions are fixed on retirement with no increase throughout their pensionable period. These pensions being financed solely by themselves, and being subject to the vagaries of the market, with no guarantee of their value on retirement.

[moneybags-b77]

The change from RPI to CPI to ours and every other public sector pension in 2012, was no more than theft by a government who have done, and are doing more to destroy pensions in this country than any government in the past. It was carried out with no negotiations, no consultation, no regard for the pensioners who had faithfully paid into those schemes, with a promise that in their retirement they would receive an index linked pension linked to the RPI.

Oh dear, facts wrong again. Must try harder .

CPI was used for our pension increase calculations for the first time in April 2011, when fire pensioners received an increase of 3.1%. If RPI had been used there would have been an increase of 4.6%.

[bill.advanced]

Oh dear, facts wrong again. Must try harder .

CPI was used for our pension increase calculations for the first time in April 2011, when fire pensioners received an increase of 3.1%. If RPI had been used there would have been an increase of 4.6%.

Google is a wonderful thing moneybags, does it really matter if it was 2012 or 2011.
1 is next to 2 on my keyboard its realy easy to hit the 2 instead if the 1 well for most of us that is.
Or did you hsve all of these figures in your brain without looking it up.
Oh and s is next to a hence the hsve.

[Stressed]

I thought the union put in a legal challenge with the police over this an lots

[bill.advanced]

I thought the union put in a legal challenge with the police over this an lots

Stressed this involved the whole public sector. Not just ourselves and the police.
I am sure somebody may have put forward a legal challenge but this was buried well and truly by the media, and we all lost out, including members waiting to retire.

[bill.advanced]

Just to put this into some kind of perspective.
If you live for 30 years in retirement the cumulative effect of this could easily mean that your final pension will be 35/ 60% smaller than if we had remained on RPI. depending on inflation. It could be even higher.
Currently RPI is at 1.3% and cpi 0.3% ( I am sure moneybags will verify these figures)
Now you may say that's not a lot. Well over a year it's not, but over a thirty year period that would mean you receiving roughly 38% less on your final pension.
No small amount, when you multiply this over the whole public sector that's 10s of billions.

[PEGASUS]

Sorry Pegasus, but we never raised an eyebrow, we sat back and did nothing about this.
We can't expect those in the private sector to do anything when we all sat and watched our own index linking being changed from RPI to CPI.
The fact is this was done by the Tories to save money at our expense, at a time when the trade unions are struggling to support their members, what could we do go on strike, what could our unions have done asked those still in work to strike for us. They picked on a soft target, pensioners, and got away with it.
This government have all but destroyed pensions for everyone, nobody in the public or the private sector has much faith in pensions anymore. Many of our own guys fear another rise in contributions, or a reduction in payout before they retire, some cannot afford the payments anymore, and are now looking forward to their old age with no pension other than their OAP.
Put the blame were it lies squarely not guardian readers or the private sector in general, but this government. Many in the private sector have no company subsidised schemes. Some of their own private pensions are fixed on retirement with no increase throughout their pensionable period. These pensions being financed solely by themselves, and being subject to the vagaries of the market, with no guarantee of their value on retirement.

Your right, we sat back and did nothing about this, but some of us certainly raised an eyebrow and asked questions at the time, including myself. Someone on here did a lot of work and put up a calculator to show how much we would lose over 10, 20 and 30 years due to the changes. his/ her name escapes me at the moment, but I will try to find it again.

This goes back to 2006 in my view, when we sold out the youngsters coming in to the job on a worse pension scheme. Asking them then to support a fight to retain RPI for retired firefighters was a non starter. Your right about the Tories picking soft targets but in retrospect it started with new labour in 2006, and gave the Tories a way in to claw away at all pensions. The barstewards are the same anyway. So it's probably our fault for not dealing with it then, we get blamed for everything else anyway.

[bakes]

Lou1z

:C

[PEGASUS]

Lou1z

Thanks auld yin.