CONFERENCE 2016 FINAL AGENDA

[josephine]

Hi Jo
Given the recognised structure to progress resolutions to Annual Conference who is to blame for a poor agenda?
You can keep blaming "the leadership" till the cows come home and nothing will change.
I don't disagree with you, I think what you are saying is with position comes responsibility. With leadership there is the need to carry out the wishes of those who elected you through a democratic process but there is also a need to "lead" and give clear "leadership".
I remember Gilchrist once saying "When I look over my shoulder I will expect to see you all there behind me". The answer was "Don't worry about looking over your shoulder as we are way in front of you".
The rank and file organised, we pushed for a much harder fight than the one we had but the majority of the membership decided the strategy (a weak one in my opinion" where we suffered no real hardship (just ask the miners what industrial dispute hardship is) and the majority decided to settle (and as trade unionists we unified behind that democratic decision even though many of us foresaw what was coming as a result).
We then organised and ousted those we thought needed to not really be held to account but what we needed to re-unify a damaged and fractured union.
But we stayed strong and the FBU lived to fight another day.
Your talk of leadership, well I have in the past held many positions in the FBU up to and including Regional positions and every position I held from watch rep, branch official, brigade official, regional official all had the same need and responsibilities to represent the democratic position of those who elected me and also to "lead" them.
Believe you me many times called a dinosaur, left wing loony and a lot worse but never were my reasons for or my personal commitment to leading ever questioned (although many times I was told I was mad, that no one would thank me, and when I had driven myself into the grave I would be soon forgotten).
Every debate I had, either as a group or one to one I forcefully (some would say too forcefully) put forward my position, but I always respectfully listened to theirs even though I didn't agree and would try to persuade then otherwise.
So do I blame the membership?
To some degree yes I do. If you don't play your part in one of the most democratic processes I have ever experienced then you must shoulder some of the blame.
Do I blame the official?
To some degree yes I do. But that is officials of every level that are not doing what they should and carrying out their responsibility to lead. But I also blame those who do not have the courage of their conviction to step up to the plate in a "lay official" trade union or through their own selfishness' won't step up.
Do I blame the government?
Of course I do.
Do I blame society?
Yes I do and the demographics of todays society no longer has the socialist beliefs that used to bind our communities rather than the capitalism of today that divides us.
Do I blame the Labour Party?
Most certainly, as career politicians the last 25+ years of the party had been a disgrace and has betrayed the working classes.

So they have not in my opinion "been dragged up and down the garden path", they have gone where they were willing to go, some have followed like sheep and others continue to moan but play no part.
Have "they lost vast amounts of money"? Well don't ask me ask the miners.
"Dodgy dealings by the hierarchy"? Lay official union with the structure for votes of no confidence so if so the members could deal with this?

You cannot escape the simple fact my friend that conference agenda is set by the members through the democratic structures of the union. It is their parliament. And if like general politics they decide to play no part then they get whatever is given.
I have plenty of scars of criticism by members over the years so my comments are from my experience of the reality of being a lay official for the FBU and not as someone just spoiling for an argument.

Very nice lecture Benito.
I hear you blowing your own trumpet of your various achievements as a Union official.
The membership were influenced by people like you.
You in turn were influenced by those above you.
I never asked you if you blamed the Government, society or the Labour party.
Plain fact is the members have been dragged up and down the garden path in the last few years.
By a leadership that is doing nothing other than bluffing and feathering their own nests.
Conference agenda is not set by members.
It's set by influence.
I don't spoil for arguments.
If I want one I will ask for it politely.
Other than that you made a very fine post.

[Benito M]

Very nice lecture Benito.
I hear you blowing your own trumpet of your various achievements as a Union official.
The membership were influenced by people like you.
You in turn were influenced by those above you.
I never asked you if you blamed the Government, society or the Labour party.
Plain fact is the members have been dragged up and down the garden path in the last few years.
By a leadership that is doing nothing other than bluffing and feathering their own nests.
Conference agenda is not set by members.
It's set by influence.
I don't spoil for arguments.
If I want one I will ask for it politely.
Other than that you made a very fine post.

"Blowing my own trumpet of my various achievements as a Union Official"?
Exactly where do I refer to any achievements?
I make comment on what it is like to be an official at all levels of the Union (a lay official union) and my expectation of those positions and those who hold them (the same expectations I held myself to).
As for influence? Well of course. That is the nature of debate. That is the nature of leadership. That is about political beliefs. If you don't influence, then unify, then lead what is the point?
Those who influenced me (and I had the very real honour of being guided by and working with some fantastic trade unionists not to mention human beings) only influenced me through their arguments of their position and when I was persuaded their way was for the best or their argument the most convincing I was never so intransigent to not admit I had got it wrong.
By posting whom I blame I tried to make clear (and perhaps not very eloquently) all of the influences that have been in recent times that have meant members of unions (not just the FBU) no longer play their full collective part.
As for feathering their own nests? I don't know if you are right or wrong. But what I do know for my part is that my wages were frozen at a basic firefighter wage when I decided to seek election into a seconded regional post. The consequence of this was my pension was frozen for the rest of my life at that level (no acting up, temporary promotion, ADC's) to boost my salary in my last years to boost my pension so don't think I was feathering anything?
My comments on "spoiling for an argument" were my own statement of my intent in my posting not as a criticism of you. If you took it that way then you have my unreserved apology as that was not what was meant.
If I criticise you in the future rest assured I will make it much plainer for you to see.
As for being a "lecture" you asked the question "Is it any real wonder" and I responded to your question?
There have been many officials I have had disagreement with over the years but the point of my post I to put some reality to this debate of what it is like to be a committed lay FBU Official and the difficulties it brings.
Oh and by the way unless you can prove me wrong through the unions rules, or conference standing orders I maintain my position that conference agenda is set by the members through the democratic structure of the union. I will however concede that the EC can also put their issues into the conference agenda but the last time I looked that was also covered by rule/policy and standing orders.

[bill.advanced]

"Blowing my own trumpet of my various achievements as a Union Official"?
Exactly where do I refer to any achievements?
I make comment on what it is like to be an official at all levels of the Union (a lay official union) and my expectation of those positions and those who hold them (the same expectations I held myself to).
As for influence? Well of course. That is the nature of debate. That is the nature of leadership. That is about political beliefs. If you don't influence, then unify, then lead what is the point?
Those who influenced me (and I had the very real honour of being guided by and working with some fantastic trade unionists not to mention human beings) only influenced me through their arguments of their position and when I was persuaded their way was for the best or their argument the most convincing I was never so intransigent to not admit I had got it wrong.
By posting whom I blame I tried to make clear (and perhaps not very eloquently) all of the influences that have been in recent times that have meant members of unions (not just the FBU) no longer play their full collective part.
As for feathering their own nests? I don't know if you are right or wrong. But what I do know for my part is that my wages were frozen at a basic firefighter wage when I decided to seek election into a seconded regional post. The consequence of this was my pension was frozen for the rest of my life at that level (no acting up, temporary promotion, ADC's) to boost my salary in my last years to boost my pension so don't think I was feathering anything?
My comments on "spoiling for an argument" were my own statement of my intent in my posting not as a criticism of you. If you took it that way then you have my unreserved apology as that was not what was meant.
If I criticise you in the future rest assured I will make it much plainer for you to see.
As for being a "lecture" you asked the question "Is it any real wonder" and I responded to your question?
There have been many officials I have had disagreement with over the years but the point of my post I to put some reality to this debate of what it is like to be a committed lay FBU Official and the difficulties it brings.
Oh and by the way unless you can prove me wrong through the unions rules, or conference standing orders I maintain my position that conference agenda is set by the members through the democratic structure of the union. I will however concede that the EC can also put their issues into the conference agenda but the last time I looked that was also covered by rule/policy and standing orders.

Fine post Benito.

[josephine]

[RDR]

"Blowing my own trumpet of my various achievements as a Union Official"?
Exactly where do I refer to any achievements?
I make comment on what it is like to be an official at all levels of the Union (a lay official union) and my expectation of those positions and those who hold them (the same expectations I held myself to).
As for influence? Well of course. That is the nature of debate. That is the nature of leadership. That is about political beliefs. If you don't influence, then unify, then lead what is the point?
Those who influenced me (and I had the very real honour of being guided by and working with some fantastic trade unionists not to mention human beings) only influenced me through their arguments of their position and when I was persuaded their way was for the best or their argument the most convincing I was never so intransigent to not admit I had got it wrong.
By posting whom I blame I tried to make clear (and perhaps not very eloquently) all of the influences that have been in recent times that have meant members of unions (not just the FBU) no longer play their full collective part.
As for feathering their own nests? I don't know if you are right or wrong. But what I do know for my part is that my wages were frozen at a basic firefighter wage when I decided to seek election into a seconded regional post. The consequence of this was my pension was frozen for the rest of my life at that level (no acting up, temporary promotion, ADC's) to boost my salary in my last years to boost my pension so don't think I was feathering anything?
My comments on "spoiling for an argument" were my own statement of my intent in my posting not as a criticism of you. If you took it that way then you have my unreserved apology as that was not what was meant.
If I criticise you in the future rest assured I will make it much plainer for you to see.
As for being a "lecture" you asked the question "Is it any real wonder" and I responded to your question?
There have been many officials I have had disagreement with over the years but the point of my post I to put some reality to this debate of what it is like to be a committed lay FBU Official and the difficulties it brings.
Oh and by the way unless you can prove me wrong through the unions rules, or conference standing orders I maintain my position that conference agenda is set by the members through the democratic structure of the union. I will however concede that the EC can also put their issues into the conference agenda but the last time I looked that was also covered by rule/policy and standing orders.

Must say that this is one of the finest posts that I have seen on here for a good while.

I would share all of the points from Benito so if for whatever reason if that deserves a brown award then guess I've got one as well.

Conference agenda would also be helpful to find out what was going on in other areas that might not have been reported elsewhere as well as the communication between officials from being at education events and discussing similar concerns which could be that we have an issue with the results from the sole use of the national education. no similar resolutions as such.

In my opinion it must also bring into question the return to annual conference but that's for another thread

The reality of many resolutions at branch level are that when asked the members ask back, well what do you think? and its left for the branch official to try and pull together a form of words covering the main areas of concerns from the branch/brigade, the branch vote on it and it's then taken to the brigade committee if carried. So the issue with the lack of business must, in my opinion be with both the membership and officials but by trying to blame groups or individuals is missing the point, if it appears not to be working as best as it can then how can it be improved.

[bill.advanced]

Watch it RDR.
The weans won't like a post like that.
The dummies will be thrown from the prams.
Bye the way that was a fine post one of the best I have read in a while on here.
I'm actualy partial to a nice brownie with my latte.

[josephine]

Now amongst all these pats on the back for fine posts and the usual groveller.
Have a look at this.

This Conference is of the opinion that the pay increases received over the last 10 years, when offset against infl ation increases over the same period, has left FBU Members in a worse fi nancial position and, as such, has worsened their living standards. Conference therefore instructs the Executive Council to initiate consultation with Members with a recommendation for industrial action, up to and including strike action, if negotiations following the conclusion of the workstream evaluations fail to deliver an acceptable offer on pay.

Now a three year old, Mr Kite or even Bill could have written that.
What planet are they on ?

[Benito M]

Now amongst all these pats on the back for fine posts and the usual groveller.
Have a look at this.

This Conference is of the opinion that the pay increases received over the last 10 years, when offset against infl ation increases over the same period, has left FBU Members in a worse fi nancial position and, as such, has worsened their living standards. Conference therefore instructs the Executive Council to initiate consultation with Members with a recommendation for industrial action, up to and including strike action, if negotiations following the conclusion of the workstream evaluations fail to deliver an acceptable offer on pay.

Now a three year old, Mr Kite or even Bill could have written that.
What planet are they on ?

Well Josephine at least they are asking for action and not just accepting what is on offer. For me the problem with the resolution is what is "an acceptable pay offer"?
When will "the conclusion of work stream evaluations" happen? No pay rise till then?
So where we agree is that it is not particularly clear in its intent and not particularly well written or thought out. This goes to education, and to RDR points of this being left by members for branch officials to try to write on their own in a rush (accepting they are trying their best)