Momentum

[Nightstaffer]

Yes I realised that yebut, and so was I .
Sorry yebut, but the days of automatic affiliation to labour are over. Members come from the full spectrum of political persuasion.
At the very least if the fbu wants to be affiliated to anything the members should be consulted and a vote taken.
After all that's what the Greeks called democracy, something we should all value, regardless of our political persuasion.

Take a vote?

15% would want to join Labour
12% would want to be Tory
10% other parties
63% couldn't care less

And that's out of a turnout of 37%
Again 63% of the total membership couldn't care less and couldn't be bothered to vote.

That's how come you are affiliated to Labour
And Trade Unions use the block vote

That's how the useless Ed Millband was elected Leader of the Labour Psrty

Democracy in action

[bill.advanced]

Take a vote?

15% would want to join Labour
12% would want to be Tory
10% other parties
63% couldn't care less

And that's out of a turnout of 37%
Again 63% of the total membership couldn't care less and couldn't be bothered to vote.

That's how come you are affiliated to Labour
And Trade Unions use the block vote

That's how the useless Ed Millband was elected Leader of the Labour Psrty

Democracy in action

Have to get one of those crystal balls Ns
Why bother having votes on anything when you have a gadget that does the job for us.

[Nightstaffer]

Bill no need to look to the future just look to the past
When was the last time an elected UK Government attracted more than 50% of the overall vote on turnout alone

Then compare the total number of votes cast for the elected party against the total of voters on the electoral roll
And you might find that we are continually being governed by a government who represent 30% or so of the electorate

Always was
Democracy an easy word to fling about in an ideal world
In reality sometimes it sucks

[bill.advanced]

Ns give the members a say.

The question is should we affiliate to labour yes or no.
They pay their dues they should be given a day, and if most don't bother to vote or don't care well so be it.

[spangle]

Yes most were probably from working class backgrounds, many had been schooled in trade unionism ( totally different from being a member of a trade union) before they joined the FBU and the fire service.
Their family and friends were also likely to have similar principled views

Shoot forward to Maggies children and then again to the 2005 era.

Today many members of the fire service come from a background where collective bargaining is unknown
Individual greed before collective need and sticking together.
The fire service is made up from people from all walks of life
They mix with friends for whom going on strike us anathema
Back in the seventies our families and friends supported us financially during 77 and the thought of breaking a strike would have been met by derision from your family and friends
Today many people in the fire service are not even in the FBU and their family and friends would be just as likely to take a dim view if they did go on strike.
Large mortgages and finance for cars means that going into work during a strike is more important than sticking with your colleagues.
More and more firefighters have aspirations to become senior managers and a participating in strike puts paid to that these days.
When everyone stuck together , even DOs and SDOs , they couldn't pick anyone out
Bullying is more rife now today than when there was total commitment , and often its former colleagues who don't hold allegiance to Labour or trade unionism that are the ones doing the bullying.

The FBU would readily acknowledge that many of its members don't vote Labour
The evidence is there on every occasion that they try to defend the conditions of service of its members and they are undermined by those that don't espouse trade unionism

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/features...tions.html

It may be more complex I don't just see this as the young uns. Those aged 40 - 50, more inclined to want children in private education, enjoy Pinot Grigio more than a manns brown ale, city breaks have become the norm and are talking points, FFs paying up to 1000 pa for a golf membership......baby boomers, generation x, y and z, millenials, what's next, what is clear that time doesn't stand still.

[Nightstaffer]

Hi Spangle , that who I meant The young uns 40 somethings!
To me they are " young" LOL

Mind you us old uns have moved off the beer and on to the Cotes du Rhone Villages , from Aldi of course, a pension only goes so far and fast

[bill.advanced]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/features...tions.html

It may be more complex I don't just see this as the young uns. Those aged 40 - 50, more inclined to want children in private education, enjoy Pinot Grigio more than a manns brown ale, city breaks have become the norm and are talking points, FFs paying up to 1000 pa for a golf membership......baby boomers, generation x, y and z, millenials, what's next, what is clear that time doesn't stand still.

What's wrong with city breaks and Pinot Grigo spangle.
Your making me feel bad about myself now.

[spangle]

What's wrong with city breaks and Pinot Grigo spangle.
Your making me feel bad about myself now.

There is nothing wrong with it, I think that's the point, workforces have changed, and in part previous generations have contributed to that change, social mobility, parents wanting better for their offspring and so on and so on (post war years), fast forward 30 to 40 years some people have no recollection or affinity to those past times. Just my opinion of course, Aldi prosseco just as good as marks and spencer.....

[bill.advanced]

There is nothing wrong with it, I think that's the point, workforces have changed, and in part previous generations have contributed to that change, social mobility, parents wanting better for their offspring and so on and so on (post war years), fast forward 30 to 40 years some people have no recollection or affinity to those past times. Just my opinion of course, Aldi prosseco just as good as marks and spencer.....

SPANGLE I WAS ONLY JOKING HONEST.
Good points spangle, yes the world has changed so much in the last few decades.
When I joined the fire service we had about 30 in our station, only around 6 had cars, only 2 or three lived in private housing, and we all lived from week to week with nout in the bank. Now in a typical fire station of 30 only 6 would not have a car, only two or three would not live in private housing, and most of us have got something stashed away for a rainy day. Changed times ,different people, different ideas, different outlooks, and different demands.

[Nightstaffer]

Prosecco?
What?

Us Socualists only drink Champagne

I agree with what you say in the post above Spangle but it does no harm to remember your roots and what made you

Solid principles back then will
Still serve you well "
Going forward' as they say in management circles these days,